Not sure if it's just my machine or if there's some odd fueling going on but I'm having a strange issue starting. It will fire and then immediately die. It's done this in various temperatures ranging from 45-70f and it's done it after having just been on it and trying to start it 30 minutes later as well as sitting for hours. If I fire it up and give it throttle for a while then it's ok. Anyone else having issues? I have been searching around but there's not a lot of info about this bike yet. I'll be checking with the dealer about it but just seeing if anyone else has had this issue.
Weird starting issue
Evolution
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Thanks Cross899
Yep still have the canister installed. When I had the bike serviced a few days ago I spoke to the tech about the hot start issue. He was aware of it and immediately stated their current course of action was canister removal. Since I hadn't had the problem I did not elect to have him do it. His theory on the problem was overfilling the gas tank, so he said. Anyways, I'm bummed because I thought I was in the clear but looks now like I'm buggered like so many others here.
Yep still have the canister installed. When I had the bike serviced a few days ago I spoke to the tech about the hot start issue. He was aware of it and immediately stated their current course of action was canister removal. Since I hadn't had the problem I did not elect to have him do it. His theory on the problem was overfilling the gas tank, so he said. Anyways, I'm bummed because I thought I was in the clear but looks now like I'm buggered like so many others here.
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Doesn't matter if the tank is overfilled or half empty. The canister causes hot start issues. My bike would do it every other day. I took the can off at 600 miles and haven't had a single start issue. Now at 4k miles.
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I forgot to mention that they didn't even charge me to remove it. All the dealers know that the charcoal canister wasn't a well thought out add on and causes problems for anybody buying a USA 899. I'm suprised they have them in Canada, thought the USA was the only country to be burdened with that stupid emission B.S. Yeah get it removed, you'll be much happier!
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With all the anecdotal evidence that this solution appears to almost eliminate the hot start issue, I still don't understand why you would want this equipment on the bike. When I spoke to Ducati HQ in Italy about this very issue, they said that removing the canister will have no impact whatsoever on the warranty of the bike. Your only issue is going to be with CARB.
If you don't live in California, much less the US, who gives a $hit? It seems that even owners living in CA don't!
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Had this issue today, tech says the same thing as most, "crack the throttle to get it started" says he hasn't heard any update from Ducati in about 2 months. I'll be taking off the canister asap.
Had the same issue with my bike this summer. Right on the middle-lower portion of the tank there's a sticker that talks about avoiding overfilling your tank. This causes the gas to expand (especially in heat) and causes hard starts/hesitation. Started to make sure that I didn't fill the tank all the way to the top and haven't had the problem since.
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It happened to mine no matter how much or how little fuel was in there. Removing the canister was the only thing that stopped it.
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An update: despite the ECU updates I mentioned back in August, my bike had pretty severe hot start problems last weekend. I just ticked over 2000 miles when the issue arose.
Not sure why it took so long to start giving me trouble, but I'll be yanking the canister soon.
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Sorry to hear that you are beginning to experience this issue. I would be interested to know if you get the canister removed and still have the problem.
Was it becoming colder around the time you had had the ECU update and are you now riding and subsequently starting it in warmer temperatures? Perhaps the air was cold enough to allow it to cool down enough to prevent the issue from occurring.
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I was hoping to yank the canister today, but the local parts store didn't have a proper T-fitting so I'll have to put it off for next weekend.
I had the ECU update done with my first service back in August, which is peak temps in LA (so 80-100F in August/September). No issues then. First time it happened was a few weeks ago when I was up in the mountains, around 5500 ft. and 56F temperature. The bike was parked on a decline, I stopped for five minutes to stretch my legs. When I went to start it, it had trouble starting and then would shut off if I didn't keep the throttle cracked open. I eased it out in first with the throttle still cracked, and after that, it did not stall.
Last weekend, it was in the high 70s and low 80s. My friend and I took a few breaks, parked in the sun, and when I'd try to start the bike after that, it would struggle to stay alive unless I kept the throttle cracked.
In other words, it's happened at cooler temps and at hotter temps now, and I've definitely ridden it on even hotter days in the past without issue.
I'm guessing the canister is full of gas and causing issues now. Hopefully yanking the canister will solve the problem as it did for many of you.
If you get around to this, would you mind taking photos and doing a short write up?
I just took the bike in this past weekend to get the ECU updated and to have the exhaust valve motor fixed (bike sounded far too quiet). They say the ECU update/parameter reset should take care of it but I'm not real impressed with the service from this dealership. I get the sense I'll be dealing with this issue again soon.
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There is too much anecdotal evidence against the ECU update fixing this problem. If you are experiencing the hot start issue, the popular recommendation is to have the canister removed.
I figured as much. I'm just not comfortable working on this bike myself just yet. I had an R6 prior to the 899 and it was like playing with legos. This bike is a bit more of a challenge
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I was afraid of tinkering on a new bike myself—especially this thing. But, for this mod, you'll do fine. Take off the fairings, look at the connections to the canister, ask lots of questions, then snip that thing right off.I figured as much. I'm just not comfortable working on this bike myself just yet. I had an R6 prior to the 899 and it was like playing with legos. This bike is a bit more of a challenge
Here's the thread regarding canister removal in this forum:
http://www.899panigale.org/forum/899-panigale-how/2082-more-info-charcoal-canister.html
And on the 1299 forum (formerly 1199):
How To: Charcoal Canister Removal - Ducati 1299 Forum
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I did it last weekend and followed these write-ups:
http://www.899panigale.org/forum/899-panigale-how/2082-more-info-charcoal-canister.html
How To: Charcoal Canister Removal - Ducati 1299 Forum
And these are the parts needed:
http://www.899panigale.org/forum/899-panigale-how/2082-more-info-charcoal-canister-2.html#post195273
I also bought extra hose clamps since I tee'd off of the fuel tank overflow line for the vapor line.
One thing I didn't realize until doing it is that you have to remove more than just the side fairings:
1) Remove the plastic around the key cylinder (4 screws)
2) The plastic running underneath the plastic for the key cylinder clips in over the top of the side fairing so you kind of need to free it so that the side fairing can come off
3) Side fairing comes off with like 8 screws and 1 pop rivet near the front wheel
4) Lower side fairing comes off with another 4 screws I think (total was 17 screws and 1 pop rivet)
This video helped with removing the fairings: http://youtu.be/yzvIJ87l6ac
The hoses on the canister were stuck pretty good after 2k miles; the gas vapor line slid off fairly easily but the vacuum line to the intake was stuck on pretty hard. I ended up using an X-Acto knife to slice it off.
Followed the rest of the directions from the threads above. I only got to ride the bike some Saturday thanks to the rain we've been getting here, but I did a few hot starts and it sparked and idled without stalling now, so I'm hoping it's fixed. It was cooler than a few weeks ago when it was happening to me a lot, but here's hoping that it's resolved.
I am very happy with the service from my dealership (Ducati Newport Beach -- it's far from me but worth it). Even so, this is one of those situations where dealerships might not be able to give you the proper solution because of emissions regulations.
I'm not sure why it took 2k miles for it to start with my bike, but I really hope it's fixed now. FWIW, the canister did not seem to have any gas in it, I could not feel any sloshing when I took it out. I think my bike was just getting rich conditions in the heat from the vapor being sucked back up the intake line.
Only snagged a few pics (the crappy ones are with an old iPad, dirty gloved hands left me little choice).
Attachments
Thanks for taking the time to write up the snags you ran into though. I invariably run into all kinds of problems when I try to follow someone's directions and end up having to put everything back. At least with your caveats and the links you guys provided I can have some expectation of any potential issues I'll run into.Apparently while I was writing that monster Mustang already set you up with the links
Forgot you lived in the area. Newport isn't too bad a drive from me so I may take it there in the future vs. Del Amo Motorsports.
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I don't say this lightly -- Ducati Newport Beach is one of the best (if not the best) dealership experiences I have had, ever, cars included. Highly, highly recommend over Del Amo or Pro Italia. They might be more expensive, but I think you get what you pay for in my experience with them.
I just didn't bother going to them with this hot start since it seems everyone knows what the solution is already. If it keeps happening to mine after removing then canister, I'll make the trip down to Costa Mesa.
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It is my firm belief that this is exactly the problem associated with the hot start issue. The lines run back into the intake and I seem to think that the fumes in the hot conditions trick the fuel injection into thinking that there is an adequate amount of gas being supplied in order to start the engine.
In reality, I don't see how an ECU update can alleviate this problem.
When I took my bike in to the dealer, they verified there was no ECU update. So I would also say that the ECU update has little to do with it. My bike has the same hot start issue as was reported in this thread.
Thankfully, my dealer found that my canister was faulty. They didnt have a spare on hand so they had to order one. In the meantime, they disconnected the canister and said that they could, at my request, reinstall the new one later when it came in. But... since they disconnected it, I havent had a single hot start issue. Ill drop by to collect my replacement canister, but Im not planning on putting it back in.
Thankfully, my dealer found that my canister was faulty. They didnt have a spare on hand so they had to order one. In the meantime, they disconnected the canister and said that they could, at my request, reinstall the new one later when it came in. But... since they disconnected it, I havent had a single hot start issue. Ill drop by to collect my replacement canister, but Im not planning on putting it back in.
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