Will I miss torque if I buy a 899

22791 Views 23 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Microgale, Apr 28, 2014

Microgale

Discussion Starter · Jan 26, 2014 (Edited)

Hi guys I admit this is a bit of a 'how long is a bit of string' question, but I am confident that some of you will give me valuable insights.

I currently ride an extensively modified 900 SS. The bike has high compression pistons and lots of other engine mods.

It's had engine mods to maximize it's performance a too it entire rev range. I love the instant torque connection the throttle has with the rear tyre at real world sensible road speeds between 4000 and 6000 rpm. I figure that peak torque is now about 80ft/lbs at 6000 rpm

On the road it is common to mis read corners I am not familiar with (don't know the apex of). With effortless low end torque it's not a problem to recalibrate and roll on the throttle and readjust using the instantly available torque. It really feels like riding the proverbial wave of torque.

I've never been dissatisfied with the engine performance of the 900 SS (mines about 90-95hp at the crank) and the power delivery is deliciously smooth. I don't need a lot of horsepower on the road to have fun.

It seems the 899 develops it's power much higher up the rev range.

I rode a MV F3 685 recently and found it a one trick pony. It was only satisfying when ridden hard and fast. Whereas I find a bike with excellent handling and solid torque satisfying to ride at any speed. No doubt others on this thread know from earlier model Ducatis what I am talking about.

The risk in asking this question in an 899 forum is that you all love your bikes but you are of course the only guys with real world experience with the 899.

I know the 1199 has huge torque low down and up top but I want a bike I can ride and fully engage with rather than one I have to try and tame and manage.

Guys am I going to be dissatisfied with a lack of low end torque of an 899?

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ManofManyGTs

· #2 · Jan 26, 2014 (Edited)

My dad has a highly modified 1993 900ss. High comp pistons, valve and head work, and the Kehin 41mm flat slide carbs. (If you don't have flat slides....holy crap....I can't tell you how much those darn things did for that bike). Anyway, I've ridden his bike a good bit and I know the intoxicating instant and linear torque you are referring to. I have also recently test rode the 899 (I have yet to buy one). I had to keep the 899 demo below 6k rpms for break-in. This is exactly the low end range that you are asking about. I can say that a well built old school 900ss would stop the dog crap out of the 899 to 6k rpms.... at least that's how my butt dyno perceived it. In my opinion, if you are very used to and love the power of your 900ss, you probably will miss it.

But, the 899 is also different kind of power. Its hard to describe, but it is the best FEELING v-twin I've ever ridden, and I hear that the high end power really makes up for any disappointments in the low end. I think many dealers are doing an 899 demo program. Go ride one and see.

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Microgale

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 26, 2014

Can anyone help with a link to a dyno chart for an 899 other than the one Ducati published?

Quo Vadas

· #4 · Jan 26, 2014

Good question Microgale,

I've had many bike and am a v-twin/v four junkie and have leant towards bikes with these engines because of the torque they provide.

Let's just say that I am in no way dissatisfied with the power delivery/torque of the 899.
Sure I don't have the ridiculous grunt that my other bike, RSV4 has, but the 899 is no slouch.
I test rode the 1199 3 times and found just way too much of a bike, for me anyway. I want a bike that I can ride the pants off, come out of a corner and wrap on the throttle hard without the bike wanting to spit me off.

I have ridden a 900ss and I know where you are coming from in relation to your question.
Of course, the 899 does not have the same stinking bottom end torque that your bike or litre bikes have but for me, I have gotten used to beautiful power delivery and handling of the 899 and only miss the top end power of my Ape -which I only use on the track maybe 5 times a year.

The 899 really is a "riders bike" if you know what I mean - sweet, linear power up to 9krpms when it pulls like a freight train. Useable low end torque that with a twist of the throttle, will spit you out of corners with surprising speed.

So, in answer to your question about whether you will be dissatisfied with an 899, I don't think you will. With every new bike you need time to climatise yourself to it ergonomics, fuelling, power delivery etc and I really think that the overall package of the 899 will win you over.
I've had my 899 for about 4 weeks now and do not miss riding the Ape at all.
My butt dyno enjoys the torque of the 899 and I can honestly say that I didn't think as a package, the 899 would deliver like it has. Once I got over comparing the 899 to the Ape, i have found myself in love with this machine

Good luck in your quest and I hope you get to take an 899 out for a ride and decide for yourself.

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Richie#20

· #5 · Jan 26, 2014

This is a chart of the 899 done by Befaster, Germany. They did some dyno runs and the chart is similar the Ducati chart.

It starts at 4000 rpm, then every square means 500 rpm.

My 50 Cents:
As every Ducati Superbike the 899 first of all was build for the race track. However you can ride it on the street. But if you want a motorcycle with much torque from low revs you should not buy a watercooled 4 valves Superquadro.

The better choice for that iss a big aircooled 2 valve twin. I rode 2009 Monster 1100S (the last real Ducati with dry clutch, trellis frame and without all the safety and electronic gimmicks) for 3 and a half years and that was the best road bike I´ve ever had (95 hp, 77 lbf ft).

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Microgale

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 26, 2014

Thanks for the thoughtful answers guys. Unfortunately my local dealers don't have demo bikes as yet to test. First bikes here are all going to customers who pre ordered so your comment are really appreciated. Might be that I would have to adapt to and prefer a different style of riding to enjoy the 899. My 900 SS is a sublime machine to ride, a project of many years and 50,000 km's of development, hi comp pistons, highly modified heads, flat slides, lightened flywheel, Ultrabatt Lithium battery, magnesium wheels, magnesium sprocket carrier, alloy sprocket, 999 4 pad calipers, full floating cast iron discs, 848 radial master cylinders, custom Spark Italia 2 into 1 GP style exhaust, open air box, Ohlins rear shock, race quality drop in cartridges, 169 kg, aftermarket programmable ignition, fully balanced, etc etc.

So this 899 is going to have to be good.

Microgale

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 26, 2014

Richie#20 said:
This is a chart of the 899 done by Befaster, Germany. They did some dyno runs and the chart is similar the Ducati chart.

The better choice for that iss a big aircooled 2 valve twin. I rode 2009 Monster 1100S (the last real Ducati with dry clutch, trellis frame and without all the safety and electronic gimmicks) for 3 and a half years and that was the best road bike I´ve ever had (95 hp, 77 lbf ft).

Richie do yo know the vertical scale for torque on that chart.

....and yes I love the 1100S engine...very similar characteristics to mine... The 1100S is a Brilliant engine (as is the 821cc engine in the new Hyperstrada I rode recently, but I really like faired bikes and the Superbike riding position. 8 have made custom lowered clip ons for my 900SS which are lower than those on most of the Ducati SuperBikes.

I also really like the 999 engine nearly as good as the 1100S on the road. The 999 engine has adequate torque at 4 grand.

I have sat on a Panigale and love the ergonomics, love the styling, love the maintenance intervals and love the looks! And I think a modern replacement bike should have modern safety/rider aids such as ABS and DTC.

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Richie#20

· #8 · Jan 26, 2014

Microgale said:
Richie do yo know the vertical scale for torque on that chart.

....and yes I love the 1100S engine...very similar characteristics to mine... The 1100S is a Brilliant engine (as is the 821cc engine in the new Hyperstrada I rode recently, but I really like faired bikes and the Superbike riding position. 8 have made custom lowered clip ons for my 900SS which are lower than those on most of the Ducati SuperBikes.

I also really like the 999 engine nearly as good as the 1100S on the road. The 999 engine has adequate torque at 4 grand.

I have sat on a Panigale and love the ergonomics, love the styling, love the maintenance intervals and love the looks! And I think a modern replacement bike should have modern safety/rider aids such as ABS and DTC.

No, sorry, I found it on this page:
Bedatung der neuen Ducati Panigale 899 | BeFaster

I know a lot of people waiting for a new SS, may be as a 1200 ccm with around 110 hp, but Ducati won´t do that. I think the aircooled motors will not be in the programm within 2 years.

Yeah, the 999 is also an excellent road and track bike. I rode it 4 and a half years on the road, but now it´s my track bike. We I bought the 899 I had to decide which bike to give away (because of my pocket depth) and I sold the Monster ...

ManofManyGTs

· #9 · Jan 26, 2014

Richie#20 said:
I rode 2009 Monster 1100S (the last real Ducati with dry clutch, trellis frame and without all the safety and electronic gimmicks)

Woow woow woow now, the last REAL Ducati was the 888, thank you very much...

Richie#20

· #10 · Jan 26, 2014

Opinions are like noses, everyone gets one! Thank you very much ...

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Microgale

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jan 26, 2014

Richie#20 said:
I know a lot of people waiting for a new SS, may be as a 1200 ccm with around 110 hp, but Ducati won´t do that. I think the aircooled motors will not be in the programm within 2 years.

Yeah, the 999 is also an excellent road and track bike. I rode it 4 and a half years on the road, but now it´s my track bike. We I bought the 899 I had to decide which bike to give away (because of my pocket depth) and I sold the Monster ...

I agree a modern SS with an air cooled motor makes no sense, but a modern one with the 821 cc engine from the Hyperstrada makes sense. The 821cc engine from the Hyperstrada was designed to mimic the characteristics of the air cooled engine, but I still don't think it is going to happen.

Richie how do the characteristics of the 899 engine compare with the 999 engine?

Richie#20

· #12 · Jan 26, 2014

Microgale said:
Richie how do the characteristics of the 899 engine compare with the 999 engine?

Sorry mate, although I bougt the 899 a month ago I hadn´t the chance to ride it due to the wheather conditions here in Germany (winter). I have to wait for springtime.

rjjr

· #13 · Jan 27, 2014

I'm use to riding a Diavel. It pulls like a rocket from 0-150 mph. Hammer the throttle and hold on. You'll be in triple digits in just a few seconds. I've only ridden the Panigale in rain mode but it seems to have tons of power after you hit 5k to 6k.

Richie#20

· #14 · Jan 27, 2014

If anybody is still searching for a non factory power and torque sheet, ask the Ducati Seattle guys, they may have one.

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Sydneydude

· #15 · Jan 28, 2014

The latest issue of Fast Bikes has a comparison between a new GSXR 750 and the 899
Power and torque charts are part of he comparison. The 899 makes 30% more torque than the gixxer between 4000rpm and 6000rpm, if anyone has ridden a gixxer 750 they are no slouch in that area.

The 899 makes 92Nm of torque at peak, but makes 60Nm at 4000rpm (Gixxer made 45Nm) i dont think it would be lacking in the go department compared to a 900SS even if it was modded.

Standard the 2001 900SS made around 73bhp, the 899 cranks out 125.

Cheers

Armando

snake shake

· #16 · Jan 28, 2014

heres another dyno chart with some comparables in the mix

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Microgale

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jan 29, 2014

snake shake said:
heres another dyno chart with some comparables in the mix

Thanks that is exactly what I was looking for.

snake shake

· #18 · Jan 29, 2014 (Edited)

Microgale said:
Thanks that is exactly what I was looking for.

no worries, you still think you're gunna miss the torque

there's a solid 50 ft-lbs from 3-7K before you start climbing to peak...

snake shake

· #19 · Jan 29, 2014

this might help too HORSEPOWER TO TORQUE CALCULATOR you can calc based on power output at XYZ RPM

Microgale

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jan 29, 2014

snake shake said:
no worries, you still think you're gunna miss the torque

there's a solid 50 ft-lbs from 3-7K before you start climbing to peak...

No most likely not.

A standard 900 SS produces about 60 ft-lbs peak according to Ducati at the time at about 7000 rpm. They probably inflated this figure a bit as the figures they gave for horsepower were certainly inflated.

However the torque curve is very flat and most of this torque is available from 4000rpm. My extensively modified engine probably has about 70ft-lbs torque peak. I suspect it has slightly less torque than the Panigale 899 at 4000 rpm and much less further up the rev range. I suspect I am going to love the 899!

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