Ducati 899 Panigale Forum banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I understand the concept of Engine Braking and have experienced it first hand on the 1199, but was wondering what the real practical/technical use is for it on road and track?

I watched a video (think it was a Dave Moss one but not sure?) where the person stated that engines are expensive and brake pads are cheap, so it is better to use the brakes to slow down rather than the engine. What is the advantage of using EBC to help slow the bike when getting off the throttle? Does it help with bike stability in any way on turn in or is it just to help you pull up quicker in combination with the brakes when required?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,135 Posts
Twins, particularly high-compression twins, have a LOT of engine braking. Depending on your riding style, you may prefer to have less engine braking when entering a corner. The more engine braking you have, the more the bike wants to rotate into the corner, and generally the slower your corner entry speed will be. This is known as "squaring off" the corner. Some racers prefer to ride this way on some high-horsepower bikes because it allows them to use more of the power that the bike has by standing it up early in the corner. Others prefer to carry more entry speed and mid-corner speed and get on the gas hard later in the turn carrying momentum instead of using horsepower. If you prefer the former, then you might like EBC off or on level 1. If you prefer the latter, then level 2 or 3 are for you. I run mine on level 3, because I cut my teeth on the track racing lightweight class bikes (SV650, Ninja 650R) and I prefer fast entry and mid-corner speeds and carrying momentum rather than getting on the throttle hard to fire out of a corner. It's all personal preference, there's no mechanical reason to choose one setting over the other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
1 = high engine braking
2 = medium engine braking
3 = low engine braking
-- = least amount of engine braking

-- does NOT provide the most amount of engine braking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
677 Posts
I understand the concept of Engine Braking and have experienced it first hand on the 1199, but was wondering what the real practical/technical use is for it on road and track?

I watched a video (think it was a Dave Moss one but not sure?) where the person stated that engines are expensive and brake pads are cheap, so it is better to use the brakes to slow down rather than the engine. What is the advantage of using EBC to help slow the bike when getting off the throttle? Does it help with bike stability in any way on turn in or is it just to help you pull up quicker in combination with the brakes when required?
I've also heard the 'engines are expensive, pads are cheap' line, but I'm not sure if that sends the correct message for road riding at least. For instance, I personally would not pull the clutch in as soon as I begin braking to 'save' my engine. The braking force provided by the engine is important, and in riding school we learnt this well by having to do an emergency brake on a wet surface within a certain distance. If you pulled in your clutch anytime before just coming to a stop, you were not only pinged for 'improper posture' but you'd also find yourself constantly exceeding the prescribed distance. So, for me, it is like a fundamental truth that combined brakes+engine braking slows me down quicker than just braking, and in an emergency, saving a few feet can be the difference between riding away and a crash.

I agree that the choice of EBC is a personal preference thing. At any setting, EBC gives you some level of engine braking, which is different to pulling in the clutch, which gives you none at all.

I rode for months on the default EBC 1. With some peer feedback, I then thought I'd go to EBC 2 (less engine braking) and I very quickly felt uncomfortable at how the bike didn't slow down as I expected it to when I rolled off the throttle. So I'm back to EBC 1. There are others here who feel much more comfortable on the bike with higher EBC, and they happily rock EBC 2 or 3.

I attach the chart of EBC numbers and what they mean straight out of the manual.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
1 = high engine braking
2 = medium engine braking
3 = low engine braking
-- = least amount of engine braking

-- does NOT provide the most amount of engine braking.
The owner's manual states the opposite, page 69:
EBC off = maximum engine braking.
EBC 3 = minimum engine braking.
Owner's manual is wrong. Go set your EBC to -- and you will see that it provides the least amount of engine braking.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pancake899

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
The EBC opens the throttle bodies without applying fuel to reduce compression braking. EBC 1 slightly open them. EBC 2 opens them further, reducing the compression braking effect. EBC 3, further even still. Turning it off removes the feature.

The manual is correct.

On the point of engines are expensive...it seems like flawed logic to me. The engine is still turning. I don't really see where you're saving wear on lubricated parts there. On the flip side, brake pads are cheap but are effected by heat to a much larger degree. If you're using the brakes too much, they will fade.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
The EBC opens the throttle bodies without applying fuel to reduce compression braking. EBC 1 slightly open them. EBC 2 opens them further, reducing the compression braking effect. EBC 3, further even still. Turning it off removes the feature.

The manual is correct.
Whether the manual is wrong or not, the fact is when EBC is set to - it provides the least amount of engine braking.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
569 Posts
Whether the manual is wrong or not, the fact is when EBC is set to - it provides the least amount of engine braking.
This isn't true.

The setting you describe would be the MOST engine braking - the system is completely turned off.

In the case of the 899, which is a reasonably large twin cylinder motorcycle, there is a massive amount of engine braking inherent to the design. No intervention means that the maximum engine braking is being applied as the stock engine would provide tons without electronic intervention.

The settings work like this

EBC Off - (think of this as 0) - No intervention - most available engine braking
EBC 1 - Engine braking slightly reduced (low intervention)
EBC 2 - Engine braking significantly reduced (medium intervention)
EBC 3 - Engine braking greatly reduced (high intervention)

The system is more sophisticated than simply opening the TB's without adding fuel. It's using the front and rear wheel speed sensors to determine if your down change is causing rear wheel slide / lockup and adding RPM's to counter that.

I'm using EBC 3 for the racebike almost exclusively, but in situations where there is a tight corner after a reasonably fast straight greater engine braking may be desirable to get the back to drift slightly (think backing it in), which the EBC 3 setting may not allow.

I continue to be completely amazed by the electronic capabilities of this motorcycle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,841 Posts
This isn't true.

The setting you describe would be the MOST engine braking - the system is completely turned off.

In the case of the 899, which is a reasonably large twin cylinder motorcycle, there is a massive amount of engine braking inherent to the design. No intervention means that the maximum engine braking is being applied as the stock engine would provide tons without electronic intervention.

The settings work like this

EBC Off - (think of this as 0) - No intervention - most available engine braking
EBC 1 - Engine braking slightly reduced (low intervention)
EBC 2 - Engine braking significantly reduced (medium intervention)
EBC 3 - Engine braking greatly reduced (high intervention)

The system is more sophisticated than simply opening the TB's without adding fuel. It's using the front and rear wheel speed sensors to determine if your down change is causing rear wheel slide / lockup and adding RPM's to counter that.

I'm using EBC 3 for the racebike almost exclusively, but in situations where there is a tight corner after a reasonably fast straight greater engine braking may be desirable to get the back to drift slightly (think backing it in), which the EBC 3 setting may not allow.

I continue to be completely amazed by the electronic capabilities of this motorcycle.
Do you have a slipper to compliment the EBC?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
569 Posts
Do you have a slipper to compliment the EBC?
I decided not to go that route. I'm using the EBC only and keeping the stock non-slipper clutch. All in all the system works very well. I used the slipper money to buy more tires and track time. :)

This year I'm changing the front forks. I was able to get a set of GP Suspension cartridges that should bolt up beautifully. I'll report on the results after the first few track days. Other than that it's tires and track time for me this year. The off season is maintenance items.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Whether the manual is wrong or not, the fact is when EBC is set to - it provides the least amount of engine braking.
This isn't true.

The setting you describe would be the MOST engine braking - the system is completely turned off.
Ok, so why is it that the bike slows downs much slower when I release the throttle at - than at 1? At 1 the bike lurches me forward because it has very high engine braking. At - it barely moves me when I let go of the throttle. Wouldn't the highest engine braking setting cause the opposite?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Interesting. So my brand new 2015 bike with less than 700 miles on the odometer is broken. ...or people are getting their EBC settings confused.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top