[Noitall]

Just completed a back to back dyno run.

848 Evo with Vance & Hines slip ons, fueled using a Power Commander
Max Power 137.72 bhp Max Torque 71.43 ft-lbs

899 with Termi slip ons fueled mapped through the ecu
Max Power 136.98 bhp Max Torque 70.50 ft-lbs

Even worse between 6000 and 9000 rpm the 848 produces up to 10 bhp more than the 899.

I think Ducati need to go back to the drawing board.

 

[jarelj]

Sorry, no way a bone stock 848 Evo with slip-ons makes 138HP at the wheel! My 848 RACE bike with fully built and blueprinted engine, Nemesis ECU with custom map, Termi full race exhaust, etc. made 128HP at the wheel. Our AMA sponsored rider's 848 Evo that is racing in the Daytona Sportbike class this year makes 130 at the wheel. I think the dyno operator needs to go back to the drawing board.... ;-)

 

[Noitall]

Sorry, no way a bone stock 848 Evo with slip-ons makes 138HP at the wheel! My 848 RACE bike with fully built and blueprinted engine, Nemesis ECU with custom map, Termi full race exhaust, etc. made 128HP at the wheel. Our AMA sponsored rider's 848 Evo that is racing in the Daytona Sportbike class this year makes 130 at the wheel. I think the dyno operator needs to go back to the drawing board.... ;-)

Forget power output you cannot compare figures from different dynos. This was a comparison on the same dyno. It only shows the difference between the 848 and 899. This is the same dynojet dyno as used at the British Superbike Championship. Some dynos read low some high. Makes me laugh when people quote figures as they mean nothing.

 

[jarelj]

Most of the tests I've seen have found a 6-10HP difference between stock 848 Evo and stock 899, just pointing out that your numbers seem to be odd. Maybe the 899 you have has an issue? Have you ran another 899 on that same dyno? Where's the dyno chart, would be interesting to see it.

 

[Warhammer]

 

[Warhammer]

How many miles are on the 848 vs the 899? Some guys in the Tri Options cup didn't receive their bikes until the week of the first race.

 

[Noitall]

Most of the tests I've seen have found a 6-10HP difference between stock 848 Evo and stock 899, just pointing out that your numbers seem to be odd. Maybe the 899 you have has an issue? Have you ran another 899 on that same dyno? Where's the dyno chart, would be interesting to see it.

Dyno chart attached
On track all the 899's are lapping a lot slower that the 848 ever did. 0.8 secs on a 1.2 mile circuit is massive.

 

[Noitall]

How many miles are on the 848 vs the 899? Some guys in the Tri Options cup didn't receive their bikes until the week of the first race.

Most of the bikes had at least 500 miles on the clock as did the one on the Dyno several riders had been to Spain to test before Brands Hatch.
The facts are the 899 is not as fast as an 848 when you analyse both the lap times and speed trap figures at the Donington Park test and Brands Hatch race meeting.
Basic facts are the 899 is not as powerfull as the 848 in the spec tested on the Dyno. The 899 is well down on mid range power is 10 kg heavier and does not handle as well.
Time will tell.

 

[Warhammer]

Most of the bikes had at least 500 miles on the clock as did the one on the Dyno several riders had been to Spain to test before Brands Hatch.
The facts are the 899 is not as fast as an 848 when you analyse both the lap times and speed trap figures at the Donington Park test and Brands Hatch race meeting.
Basic facts are the 899 is not as powerfull as the 848 in the spec tested on the Dyno. The 899 is well down on mid range power is 10 kg heavier and does not handle as well.
Time will tell.

Yeah the times are a bit down (I watched the second race on British Eurosport). I'll reserve judgement until the bikes have some miles on them and some development.

 

[Noitall]

Yeah the times are a bit down (I watched the second race on British Eurosport). I'll reserve judgement until the bikes have some miles on them and some development.

What development? no development allowed except for suspension tuning nothing else will be permitted.
There is no doubt the 848 is one of the best all round sports motorcycles ever built and would have always been a hard act to follow.
The reason I supported Ducati's in the past was because they drove off the corners like nothing else they were light and handled. Not sure who influenced the current design but they have lost there way bowing to the form rather than the function, a big mistake in my opinion.
The bike has sold on looks alone which is fair enough if that is all you are looking for.

 

[Warhammer]

What development? no development allowed except for suspension tuning nothing else will be permitted.
There is no doubt the 848 is one of the best all round sports motorcycles ever built and would have always been a hard act to follow.
The reason I supported Ducati's in the past was because they drove off the corners like nothing else they were light and handled. Not sure who influenced the current design but they have lost there way bowing to the form rather than the function, a big mistake in my opinion.
The bike has sold on looks alone which is fair enough if that is all you are looking for.

If I wanted power, I would have kept my R1, it would suck the paint off of the 848 and the 899 as it flew past. But power was not my focus. If you are competing with 848s and they are faster, then sell your 899( I'm sure that someone would buy it) and get a 848. It is obvious from most of your post that you are frustrated with this bike. So do yourself a favor and get the 848, it's still early in the season. If for some reason you cannot do such a thing now, I guess you'll have no recourse but to wallow in your own misery. I for one, if I were racing, would have stuck with a proven machine for the season. To campaign a machine with no record is foolhardy in my opinion and full of risk. You assume that risk when you decided to campaign the 899, no record, no data for setup. I understand your frustration but hammering this bike on a forum where 99.9 percent of the bikes here will NEVER see the track, is an exercise in futility.

 

[Noitall]

If I wanted power, I would have kept my R1, it would suck the paint off of the 848 and the 899 as it flew past. But power was not my focus. If you are competing with 848s and they are faster, then sell your 899( I'm sure that someone would buy it) and get a 848. It is obvious from most of your post that you are frustrated with this bike. So do yourself a favor and get the 848, it's still early in the season. If for some reason you cannot do such a thing now, I guess you'll have no recourse but to wallow in your own misery. I for one, if I were racing, would have stuck with a proven machine for the season. To campaign a machine with no record is foolhardy in my opinion and full of risk. You assume that risk when you decided to campaign the 899, no record, no data for setup. I understand your frustration but hammering this bike on a forum where 99.9 percent of the bikes here will NEVER see the track, is an exercise in futility.

It is not only about the racing. As an ardent Ducati fan for 40 years I sincerely believe people have been dupped/misled by the hype of the Panigale. power has never been a Ducati strong point, that is the point. A Ducati could out perform the opposition with the torque of the engine, light weight and handling - no more. The are now appealing to those that buy for looks rather than function, a sad day indeed.

 

[Warhammer]

It is not only about the racing. As an ardent Ducati fan for 40 years I sincerely believe people have been dupped/misled by the hype of the Panigale. power has never been a Ducati strong point, that is the point. A Ducati could out perform the opposition with the torque of the engine, light weight and handling - no more. The are now appealing to those that buy for looks rather than function, a sad day indeed.

Well this new engine I've had to get used to. You have to rev the daylight out of this twin(which really goes against my instincts). The last Ducati that I rode was a friend's 900 SS back in '95, lots of low end and mid range torque.
Ducati has had to change their focus to remain competitive. Do I lament the lost of that character of the old engines, yes to some degree. Anything that the company changes will be met with harsh criticism. It's like the hardcore have been betrayed. Remember the gnashing of teeth when the monster debuted?

 

[timkent]

Some strange posts here. I have owned two 1098's. I have owned an 899 for a few days. You cannot compare one to the other. In comparison the 1098 is a dog (and therefore I have to assume the 848 is also). Don't get me wrong - 1098/848 are great awesome machines - but they feel old compared to an 899. Very top heavy, slow to steer (I did manage to get my 1098 to turn but then it just ripped rear tyres to shreds). And lets be clear - if the 848 engine was so awesome they would not have bothered spending a few million on developing a new motor with all the electrics. And do you know what - with the EBC you don't have to head but the front yoke through engine breaking any more - my helmet is thanking me already.

 

[Warhammer]

Some strange posts here. I have owned two 1098's. I have owned an 899 for a few days. You cannot compare one to the other. In comparison the 1098 is a dog (and therefore I have to assume the 848 is also). Don't get me wrong - 1098/848 are great awesome machines - but they feel old compared to an 899. Very top heavy, slow to steer (I did manage to get my 1098 to turn but then it just ripped rear tyres to shreds). And lets be clear - if the 848 engine was so awesome they would not have bothered spending a few million on developing a new motor with all the electrics. And do you know what - with the EBC you don't have to head but the front yoke through engine breaking any more - my helmet is thanking me already.

And I am sure that your head feels tons better too.

 

[Rowan]

Something feels weird in this thread.

 

[Warhammer]

Something feels weird in this thread.

Turn to the dark side, we have cookies.

 

[jarelj]

Here's what Motorcycle-USA found on their dyno, almost 9 HP more for the 899 vs. the 2013 848 Evo.

 

[onlyme]

Noitall i feel your pain,but you quote a lot of numbers,have you actually rode a 848 or 899 ?,i am lucky i have both and its the 899 for every time,they are 2 totally different bikes in every way there is nothing similar except for the Ducati 8 and the front tyre size and maybe the clutch slave,its not all about numbers its about the riding experience the feel the sound the feeling of holding the throttle flat out and going up the box with the qs,letting off the throttle popping and groaning,priceless.

 

[Noitall]

Noitall i feel your pain,but you quote a lot of numbers,have you actually rode a 848 or 899 ?,i am lucky i have both and its the 899 for every time,they are 2 totally different bikes in every way there is nothing similar except for the Ducati 8 and the front tyre size and maybe the clutch slave,its not all about numbers its about the riding experience the feel the sound the feeling of holding the throttle flat out and going up the box with the qs,letting off the throttle popping and groaning,priceless.

Only interested in the racing. We also have both. As far as out and out all round performance goes the 848 is better. Lap times do not lie.
I accept as a road bike for going to the shops the 899 maybe better. Also I have always said the motor is probably more robust.
If you want to lap fast on track then an 848 is better because it retains all the benefits Ducati were good at. The 899 does not.
The qualities you mention are for posers all sound and no go. Outright performance can only be measured on track.