I totally hear ya man. I'm skeptical as well. I'm sure a chain adjustment is due because it's so new. But other than that, I don't really see the point.
But yes, sure enough you will void your warranty if you don't do your 600 service.
600 Mile Service
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But yes, sure enough you will void your warranty if you don't do your 600 service.
Dam* the EVAP canister to hel*!!! That thing causes so many problems....Just wanna share after 600miles service so i dont need to open new thread. Just come back taking the bike from the dealer.
They told me that they found problem in the evap canister. They already put order for replacement parts for it to come but for now they said, they done temporary fix. But the tech doesnt told me what kind of problem or what fix they done to it.
Just sharinnn
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52 Posts
LOL that is true!!! but i heard somewhere in here that i think jarel mention that if you remove the canister without proper adjustment on the ecu setup something will go wrong... but honestly, i really want to throw tht sh*t away...
first its make alot of problem on starting after the engine gets hot. then the dealer do an ecu update, after the update, starting issue is gone but after several hundred miles, it went back. and on 600miles, im glad they found something wrong on the hardware side, so they can fix it.
first its make alot of problem on starting after the engine gets hot. then the dealer do an ecu update, after the update, starting issue is gone but after several hundred miles, it went back. and on 600miles, im glad they found something wrong on the hardware side, so they can fix it.
Removing it is not a terribly difficult DIY, I did it on my Hyper 821. It is harder to access on the 899, however, with all the fairings compared to a naked supermoto.
The EVAP hasn't given me any trouble yet. But then again, I've been riding in sub 60 degree weather here during CA's winter. When it warms up, I may ditch it.
I know dealers in other states just say fk it and remove it for customers during their 600 service. I hate this state so much.
The EVAP hasn't given me any trouble yet. But then again, I've been riding in sub 60 degree weather here during CA's winter. When it warms up, I may ditch it.
I know dealers in other states just say fk it and remove it for customers during their 600 service. I hate this state so much.
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52 Posts
LOL, i bought in portland, i ask them to ditch it. but they wont do it...
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1,841 Posts
Motocorsa?
Whether or not you have the stock exhaust, there is no adjustment to the ECU if you remove the canister.
I personally spoke to Ducati HQ about the update and it was to correct the hard start issue which is world wide and an entirely different problem. It manifests itself whether warm or cold and results in an additional couple of cranks of the starter. The hot start issue is limited to North America because of the canister being a CA emissions requirement. Nothing more. It is installed on every bike sent to meet US 50 state mandate.
If you look at the parts diagram, it appears that when the engine is warm, the gas fumes retained in the charcoal could be tricking the EFI into thinking there is adequate fuel to start the bike. It is a common problem with every model of Ducati including the Monster that I own. Removing the canister on it was the first thing the local dealer did after several instances where the bike wouldn't start for upwards of half an hour after it had been ridden and turned off for a period of time.
If you can get your dealer to remove it, there are no warranty implications. I was assured of that during my call with the Ducati rep in Italy.
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90 Posts
Some dealerships are cool to remove it, but technically- it's illegal for them to do so as long it's plated, meaning it's alright to do so on an off road vehical.
There's plent of info on this forum as well as the 1299 forums, not too hard for diy but it can be a pita, just depends if you're up for the challenge
There's plent of info on this forum as well as the 1299 forums, not too hard for diy but it can be a pita, just depends if you're up for the challenge
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1,841 Posts
Only illegal in California.
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90 Posts
Let me rephrase that- it's illegal to tamper with the emissions control system for a street legal vehicles in general.
In California, especially in California - they don't like that.
Thankfully, motorcycles aren't checked, let alone smogged.
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696 Posts
Some shops won't do it because, in the case of one shop (left unnamed) the EPA can fine them should the EPA happen to come around for an inspection and find bikes without emissions controls in place.
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477 Posts
The evap canister has nothing to do with the actual exhaust emissions of the bike. It is in NO WAY connected to the exhaust. One line comes from the fuel tank, and the other goes to the throttle bodies. All it does is vent fuel vapor into the engine to be burned on start up. The bike was not designed to have it in it's European version and it's only required in the state of California. All it does is prevent evaporated fuel from venting to the atmosphere, which is only an issue in California. The device is NOT an EPA requirement, and is NOT on there due to federal law. It is on there to meet CARB requirements. Here is a link to all the pertinent vapor recovery legal information for California: http://www.arb.ca.gov/vapor/vapor.htm
Here's the federal EPA's info on motorcycle applications where they say that legislation governing vapor evaporation has been proposed. It has not been passed. Page 8. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03045.pdf
the use of a charcoal canister on the motorcycle to receive fuel vapors."
As you can see here, there is no regulation on the books even governing the use of charcoal canisters on bikes anywhere in the US except in the state of California. Now, with cars/trucks etc, there's some different rules. The EPA enforcement guidelines specifically call out a bunch of things you can't do, one of which is removing catayltic converters. That hasn't stopped people from putting full exhausts on their bikes for years. Plenty of the stuff that people do to bikes is against the letter of the law, but I think Cali is the only place that actually cares. Most regs you'll see say that you cannot alter emissions equipment origionally fitted to vehicles, but then when they describe the components covered, they don't mention anything about fuel evaporation. They reference catalysts, egr valves, certain vacuum operated switches, OBD 2 sensors, air pumps, stuff like that. I can't find a reference to charcoal canisters anywhere but in Cali laws.
I had massive starting troubles for the first 600 miles. I removed it and have gone over 4k miles without one issue. Just take it off, unless you are in California and worried about getting in trouble.
Here's the federal EPA's info on motorcycle applications where they say that legislation governing vapor evaporation has been proposed. It has not been passed. Page 8. http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/roadbike/420f03045.pdf
"First, we proposed regulations to control permeation emissions - a
type of evaporative emission in which fuel is lost through permeation of
plastic fuel tanks and fuel hoses. California currently has more stringent
evaporative emission control regulations, which in some cases require
type of evaporative emission in which fuel is lost through permeation of
plastic fuel tanks and fuel hoses. California currently has more stringent
evaporative emission control regulations, which in some cases require
the use of a charcoal canister on the motorcycle to receive fuel vapors."
As you can see here, there is no regulation on the books even governing the use of charcoal canisters on bikes anywhere in the US except in the state of California. Now, with cars/trucks etc, there's some different rules. The EPA enforcement guidelines specifically call out a bunch of things you can't do, one of which is removing catayltic converters. That hasn't stopped people from putting full exhausts on their bikes for years. Plenty of the stuff that people do to bikes is against the letter of the law, but I think Cali is the only place that actually cares. Most regs you'll see say that you cannot alter emissions equipment origionally fitted to vehicles, but then when they describe the components covered, they don't mention anything about fuel evaporation. They reference catalysts, egr valves, certain vacuum operated switches, OBD 2 sensors, air pumps, stuff like that. I can't find a reference to charcoal canisters anywhere but in Cali laws.
I had massive starting troubles for the first 600 miles. I removed it and have gone over 4k miles without one issue. Just take it off, unless you are in California and worried about getting in trouble.
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477 Posts
Oh, and if you need help taking it off, here you go:
http://www.899panigale.org/forum/899-panigale-how/2082-more-info-charcoal-canister.html
http://www.899panigale.org/forum/899-panigale-how/2082-more-info-charcoal-canister.html
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696 Posts
Not sure if you were replying to my post-I never mentioned there was a relationship between the canister and exhaust--but, in CA the EPA does impose fines if the shop removes the canister or if the shop installs exhausts meant for off road use.
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477 Posts
No, not directing that at any one person. A lot of people have been confused as to the relationship between the evap canister and the exhaust and how that relates to bike fueling and mapping and such. I was just trying to clarify that that they are completely seperate and unrelated systems. I've had no fueling issues and noticed no change in bike performance after removing the can. I probably should have been clearer on that.
Mechanics have certain legal liabilities and I wouldn't expect a mechanic to jeopardize his paycheck in any way by doing something they weren't supposed to do. This is a very simple mod to do yourself and I highly recommend it. I appologize if you thought I was directing that towards you, that was not my intent.
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696 Posts
Still, it's a good thing to point out. Better to understand what you're riding.
Just had my service done today... $432 (includes a 9% sales tax).
And on the topic of the charcoal canister... the shop removed mine. But this was because they found out my canister was defective and blocked. They didnt have another one in stock so they took mine out until they get my new one in.
And on the topic of the charcoal canister... the shop removed mine. But this was because they found out my canister was defective and blocked. They didnt have another one in stock so they took mine out until they get my new one in.
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13 Posts
1900 miles on mine and tucked away in my 60* Michigan basement
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80 Posts
Had my first service today. Total cost = $390.53. The itemization was as follows:
4 qt. premium synthetic oil: $59.80
Oil filter $31.98
1 washer $ 1.98
2 O-rings $ 9.96
Parts Total: $103.72
Labor 2.5 hrs at $95hr $237.50
Shop supplies $ 23.75
Sales Tax at 7% $ 25.56
While I was there, I also picked up a little bling including red anodized bar ends, rear seat pad insert and tank guard all for only another $376.58.
4 qt. premium synthetic oil: $59.80
Oil filter $31.98
1 washer $ 1.98
2 O-rings $ 9.96
Parts Total: $103.72
Labor 2.5 hrs at $95hr $237.50
Shop supplies $ 23.75
Sales Tax at 7% $ 25.56
While I was there, I also picked up a little bling including red anodized bar ends, rear seat pad insert and tank guard all for only another $376.58.
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